We saw this today at Car Craft.com, and we agree completely!
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Accelerated Retirement of Inefficient Vehicles Act, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Accelerated Retirement of Inefficient Vehicles Act, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act

At Gerald Jones Honda in Augusta, Ga., owner Andy Jones says used models are
becoming alarmingly scarce. "I normally sell 200 used vehicles a month," Jones
says. "Lately it's been hard to find that many. . . Jones recently traded
for a 2004 Buick Century with 70,000 miles. The dealership paid $6,000 for it,
installed new brakes and tires and made a few minor changes and is now asking
$8,500 for it. Says Jones: "Three years ago, that would've been a $2,500 car."
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Economic Crisis, Used Cars
CASH FOR CLUNKERS MORON BETTY SUTTON "IN REAL TROUBLE (HEH, HEH, HEH!)"
By Hydra
Here's one for Speedy . . . the car-hating loon Rep. Betty Sutton (D-OH) (or is that "DOH!") apparently has a CLUNKER'S CHANCE of being reelected! According to a Politico story (linked from the Drudge Report . . . do you really think I'd read Politico otherwise?) V8-killer Betty Sutton is in "real trouble." YEAH, BABY!
Rep. Sutton carried the water . . . err . . . sodium silicate solution . . . for the Obamamaniacs in the huge, debt-funded giveaway that senselessly destroyed hundreds of thousands of useable V8s and other post-1984 special interest vehicles last year.
Without a doubt, Sutton is another free-spending, freedom-hating, bailout-loving liberal. She deserves to be turned out of office in November. I'm sure Speedy's lovin' it! (see sidebar for the names of other jerks who voted in favor of C4C)
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Accelerated Retirement of Inefficient Vehicles Act, Betty Sutton, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Obamanomics
I found your article to be highly one-sided and biased toward the state-sponsored vandalism of low-priced vintage vehicles. The free market, not some taxpayer-funded welfare program ought to decide which vehicles survive and which do not. Short-sighted schemes such as “Cash for Clunkers” corrode the free market. They also breed welfare sucklings who depend of borrowed-tax-money funded handouts. This dampens personal industry and self-reliance.
Of course the real intent of these programs is to drive people out of the automotive hobbies. As General Phillip Sheridan proposed in 1866, “Kill the buffalo and you will kill the Indians.” [see the “Buffalo” post link in the “Best of Speedzzter” sidebar]
It’s the same with vintage automobile interests. Basic economics teaches that as costs and barriers to participation rise, fewer chose to participate. If the power-mad environmental lobby can deplete the supply of affordable “vintage” donor and potential collector cars, the price of used replacement parts will necessarily skyrocket. In some situation, this could cause severe damage to the aftermarket. These state-sponsored vandalism plans also hurt vehicle resale markets and many small businesses who depend on servicing vintage vehicle market niches.
Nor do public relations “puff pieces” supporting vehicle scrappage like yours take into account the entire “life-cycle” cost to the environment of a vintage vehicle. Virtually all of the energy and pollution costs of producing a vintage vehicle have already been “amortized” to the environment. And such vehicles have a limited impact on air pollution, notwithstanding the handwringing claims of “experts’ at [the California Air Resources Board (CARB)]. The comparison of the Malibus [A CARB hack compared a pre-emission controls Chevelle with a current Malibu in the story] is most unfair, given both the rarity of such models for regular transportation use and the infinitesimally tiny amount of “pollution” of most current new vehicles. Most chain saws, motorcycles and lawn mowers probably emit several times the “pollution” as the imaginary new Malibu -- and are much more common than a vintage 1960s collector car -- but they are not singled out for venom and slack-jawed demonization. Based on their cumulative effect (e.g. vehicle miles driven), many, if not most, of the vehicles destroyed in Cash for Clunkers plans are NOT “some of the most polluting cars.”
These wasteful plans are indiscriminate. They sweep up fairly common-place utility models as well as rare milestone vehicles which have the misfortune to be at the low ebb of the depreciation cycle and in the custody of greedy, welfare-loving “appliance motorists.” However, to true students of automotive history and design, any pointless destruction of potential collector or donor vehicles is an irreplaceable loss to future generations of motoring enthusiasts.
Much like a ban on “Saturday Night Specials,” Cash for Clunkers disproportionately attacks the lower economic classes. It is therefore elitist in effect.
Cash for Clunkers programs also disproportionately affect affordable V8 powered vehicles. Some have described them a as a “war on V8s.” Given the coming hikes in Corporate Average Fuel Economy (motivated in part to placate a minority of California enviro-socialists), fewer RWD V8s will be produced and the few that survive will become significantly less affordable. Thus, one of the apparent aims of Cash for Clunkers plans is to limit the availability of traditional V8 performance vehicles.
Undoubtedly the most radical of the greens (and some allegedly “objective” journalists) will not be satisfied until vehicular liberty is decimated. A world of slaves to public transportation and/or electric micro-golf cars is their nirvana. I suspect that is your goal as well.
Your story did a real disservice to all readers who hold a more balanced, historically-sensitive perspective in the war against automotive liberty.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Airbags, California Air Resources Board, Cap and Trade, Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Hot Rod Magazine, Vehicle scrappage
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Cap and Trade, Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Carbon Dioxide, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Dave McCurdy, Global Warming, Vehicle scrappage
Toyota has an 18.9 per cent share of vehicles bought so far, putting it ahead of General Motors with 17.6 per cent and Ford with 15.4 per cent. Chrysler is in fifth place, after Honda.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Arlen Spector, Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, General Motors, Rep. Joe Sestak, Toyota, Vehicle scrappage, William Clay Ford
[A]uto data aggregator Edmunds.com found that shoppers have been getting less of a discount since the start of the program. For example, the average discount on a new Ford Escape after the Clunkers program began has slipped to 5.2% off the MSRP, compared with 5.7% before the program got underway. Consumers are paying an average $261 more. A new Dodge Caliber sold for an average price of $17,368 before Clunkers, 11.7% off MSRP, compared with an average $19,181 after the program’s start, a discount of just 3.8%.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, NHTSA, The Goods, Vehicle scrappage
In the last 20 years most cars I have owned/driven would have gone to the junkyard had I not saved them. I feel this is real recycling. My current driver/beater (98 Chevy) was on the truck for the yard when I bought it. Less that $400 in parts later it's a good runner. ...
While out at a local Chevy dealer yesterday, had to pass the line of recently killed car to leave. A nice looking mid 1990s GMC pick up, extended cab and all waiting to be crushed was there. Better truck that I can afford as a honest car mechanic with 2kids and a mortgage.
Last week it was a sweet looking 87 Cutlass coupe, hard to find now in the northeast, that is crushed by now. I would have even taken it with the wreaked engine, got a spare. I told my wife seeing those cars, for me would be like the humane society putting dogs that they were going to put down on the front lawn with a sign saying "we are going to kill these dogs and you can't help them." Just make me sick. My wife thinks I am kind of strange, but I bet you guys (and girls) would understand.
"With social media, you can be vapid, boring and annoying with alarming frequency," Patricia Vaccarino, owner of a Seattle public relations firm, warned clients in a newsletter.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Barack Obama, Betty Sutton, Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, GMC, Oldsmobile Cutlass, Vehicle scrappage, William Clay Ford
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", AAM, Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, GM, NADA, Toyota, Vehicle scrappage, William Clay Ford
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Barack Obama, Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Honda, Hyundai, Toyota, William Clay Ford
The sales last month from the federal incentives may result in fewer buyers later this year after the program ends, George Pipas, Ford’s sales analyst, told CNBC today.
The "cash for clunkers" program is yet another boondoogle - an expensive waste of precious taxpayer dollars. Government spending should be reined in, in light of the multi-trillion dollar unsustainable deficits that this nation now faces. However, if we must increase government spending, the money would be better spent on infrastructure and education improvements that might help bring jobs back to America, and encourage long term growth, rather than cosmetic improvements to the short term earnings of makers of high mileage automobiles, many of which are foreign companies.
This government is, unfortunately, a reflection of the current state of economic immaturity that prevails in America. The vast majority of people, including most people in Congress, do not understand the forces that drive the real economy, and see only the short term view. That is how they get manipulated into allowing the Federal Reserve to behave like a slush fund for big banks, passing programs like TARP into law, and enacting programs like "cash for clunkers" which all abuse the taxpayers.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Vehicle scrappage
What a bunch of fraud, waste, and abuse on all levels up to Obama. Stupid program, and these clowns featured in this video are the monkey wrenchers that fix peoples cars that are unable to themselves. There ain't no freakin' difference between neutral and park for revving it up you dork. Except maybe it could roll over you as you try to kill it. Built Ford Tough Bronco windsor holdin' strong to the very end...
What a waste. Good vehicles being self-destructed from within. They can take this "clunker" program and... Well you get the idea.
This is the Automobile Holocaust... what it means to you is higher taxes in the years to come.
[O]nce everybody who has a clunker, and wants a Focus, already have them... the artificial demand will CRASH.
Tech bubble. Housing bubble, cash/stock market bubble (remember 14,000?), and now automotive bubble. Every time demand is artificially spiked, it crashes to compensate.
Good, viable cars are still being destroyed and sent to China, rather than being utilized to their fullest extent.
The government is still leveraging this with future borrowed money, because they are already broke.
Government is still printing money, monetizing [its] own debt, borrowing from China, and will need to raise taxes.
Tax revenue stats just came out... the LOWEST adjusted decline in tax revenue since the great depression... (I hate that they call seizure "revenue", as if the government earns anything... they TAKE money away from people who earn it. WELL beyond what the Constitution limits the government to do.)
the government is spending money faster than ever, and tax money into the government is dropping to historic lows... and debt and deficits are at astronomical, soon to be unrecoverable highs...
Gee, what could be wrong with that...
It used to be Gub'ment cheese. Now it's Gub'ment cars. It is re-distribution, and waste of private wealth either way, and it is not acceptable.
How about if Ford wants to sell the cars, how about they sell their cars on merit, rather than on welfare assistance.
"It wouldn't surprise me if there is a consumer backlash once car owners realize that 'Cash for Clunkers' is nothing more than a clever slogan for a program to spend $1 billion of our tax dollars to fund a government subsidized vehicle trade-in to help new car dealers sell cars," said Kathleen Schmatz, AAIA president and CEO. "Consumers will soon learn that they are simply trading in their vehicle and will still have to jump through all of the hoops to qualify for and purchase a new vehicle."
The much heralded fuel efficiency and environmental benefits of purchasing a new vehicle could easily be achieved through better maintenance of an existing vehicle or trading up to a newer used vehicle, according to AAIA. Any savings from improved miles per gallon will be lost from the costs involved in destroying and disposing of the "clunkers."
AAIA has strongly opposed "Cash for Clunkers" that prematurely destroys vehicles and their valuable parts and components. "Destroying vehicles with many more years of life denies consumers more affordable used vehicles and pulls vehicles from the aftermarket supply chain," said Schmatz.
The Consumer Allowance Rebate System, the [Orwellian newspeak] official name for "Cash for Clunkers," offers vouchers up to $4,500 to new car dealerships for consumers who trade-in their vehicle for a new, more fuel-efficient vehicle.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Ford Bronco, Ford Mistakes, Vehicle scrappage, William Clay Ford
CARS sponsor [AND CHIEF, BIG SPENDING AUTOMOTIVE VANDAL] Rep. Betty Sutton, D-Ohio, who wanted [TO WASTE] $4 billion [IN MONEY ADDED TO THE DEFICIT], got the news from Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood Thursday night, according to Sutton's chief of staff Nichole Francis Reynolds. Reynolds said, "The program's spent [BLOWN THROUGH] $150 million and has another $800 million to $850 million in (pending) obligations [WELFARE/BAILOUT GIVEAWAYS]… This is one of those programs you can really see working." She says CARS has "overwhelming support" and Sutton was pressing to free more money to continue the program.
U.S. Senators Dianne Feinstein of California and [RINO] Susan Collins of Maine said any extension of the incentive must require greater fuel efficiency and higher reductions of auto emissions.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Car Allowance Rebate System [sic], Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Vehicle scrappage
Cash for clunkers is still welfare.
It's laundered bailout money. It's another abandonment of free market principles. It's still borrowing money we don't have to redistribute it to people who haven't earned it. It's still the pillaging and vandalism of thousands of potential collector and parts vehicles built after 1984. It's still a war on V8s and against grassroots motorsports (which depend on the sorts of "clunkers" that Welfare/Beer Bust King Obama, the environmentalists and the greedy public dole sucklings are destroying).
Ford vigorously campaigned for the CARS legislation, so they ARE benefitting from "bailout" money (i.e. Dealers get the CARS welfare vouchers they then spend to help buy the vehicles from Ford -- only the most myopic can't see that this is "bailout" cash to Ford)
I think some are missing the big picture here.
* * *
What it's really about is whether hot rodders, racers and other responsible citizens are going to settle for a sparse number of big, private, expensive regional motorsports venues, or whether more smaller, local venues ought to be available.
Clearly the trend over the past three decades has been toward fewer and fewer local tracks and more ostentatious regional tracks. Some states barely have one or two drag strips and/or road courses left. Dirt ovals are perhaps a little more common, but paved ovals outside of NASCAR's orbit are in decline.
It's no answer to the problem of street racing to say "just load your car up in a hauler and drive a couple of hours to sit in long lines at a regional NHRA track, in hopes of making a couple of passes." Moreover, the harder we make it for younger tuners and rodders to get involved in all forms of motorsports, the fewer people will bother to become involved.
In the early '50s, the appliance motorists and "safety counsels" wanted to shut down all hot rodding. But some visionary pioneers started working with the locals to build small, local, non-profit facilities. But for the efforts of these "out-of-the-box" thinkers, our automotive culture would have developed far differently. Creating local facilities was the right thing to do then. And it's the right thing to do now.
Certainly, times have changed in sixty years. Motorsports is more diverse. Environmentalism is a concern. And safety is paramount. But for local officials and racers to settle for the occassional private facility and to put up roadblocks to smaller, more convenient, less formal, public service motorsports venues is counterproductive.
Every town and city over about 15,000-20,000 residents ought to have a legal place to test, tune and race that's no more than thirty minutes away. (I can just about guarantee you that virtually every city that size has one or more golf courses, many of which are managed and funded by local governments) These multipurpose facilities could also be justified to the non-gearhead taxpayers as "driver training" parks for use by law enforcement and new drivers. For example just imagine how many accidents could be avoided and lives saved if more new drivers could be locally trained in car control on a dedicated wet skid pad and on a handling (autocross) course. Such facilities could also include various other "test" areas, including mostly self-service drag strips, a banked track and a road course. Such facilities could also include motocross and 4WD/ATV trails/test areas.
To do any of this, we've got to expand our vision as to what a modern, local motorsports facility ought to be and how it ought to be managed and paid for at the local level.
Of course, Forks isn't that big, so perhaps smaller rural areas would have to scale down their motorsports parks. But to say to all of the gearheads and potential gearheads "Sorry, you can't use the airport anymore, there's a big track 100 miles away, and we don't think the "car culture" is important enough to provide a safe, legal place to test, tune, and race" just doesn't cut it. It's irresponsible. If we took this same approach to building highways, vast sections of America would still be served by unpaved, minimally improved roads. If we took this same approach to parks, trails, and lakes, many areas wouldn't have them.
Of course, the irony is that airports are often heavily subsidized by government in the name of safety. Yet general aviation has only a fraction of the participants and potential participants of motorsports. However, aviators have done a much better job in lobbying for public investment in local public facilities for their avocation.
Brian,
You're absolutely correct that funding is the proverbial "elephant in the room." It's a bigger problem than even environmental impacts.
Nearly every state and local government is cash-strapped. Lots of things more essential than parks and recreation are being slashed.
And that's part of the reason hot rodders and racers need to "sell" the motorsports park concept on the basis of safety, driver training, and multiple uses. And multiple levels of government and the private sector ought to be involved.
Most certainly, some places would need to start smaller, such as temporarily closing off an underused public street or parking lot on the weekend (e.g. San Diego's "Race Legal" program) or by adding some "test and tune" amentites to fairgrounds or other public facilities. Some of these things could be done in many locales without huge tax increases.
But when we read of the struggles of the Brotherhood of Street Racers and Terminal Island out in L.A. or hear of another historic track folding to zoning, environmental, and "land use" pressures, it seems that we're not making any progress.
What's troubling is that someone like Cameron Argetsinger couldn't even get a hearing nowadays from most local officials. Certainly Argetsinger's original Watkins Glen plan of the late ''40s and '50s wasn't up to modern safety standards, but the idea of public facilitation of safe, legal motorsports activities at the heart of it should still be viable.
Quote from: Buickguy on Today at 07:36:22 AM
"So what? the city decided they can't afford it. I decided I can't afford a ZR1 Corvette, does that mean I'm entitled to it because I want it?
There's a bit of a problem with the greenie belief - you might want to see who owns Spokane Motorsports Park..... last I checked, Spokane is in Washington."
It's not a matter of entitlement. Is anyone "entitled" to a public lake stocked with fish? Or the services of game wardens who scientifically manage the population of animals for sport hunting? Or a lighted landing strip at a non-commercial municipal airport? Or a tee time at a municipal golf course. Or swimming at a municipal pool (most of which are subsidized)?
At its most basic level, government is about protecting our liberty and enabling the sorts of projects that are too big and difficult for the private sector. That's why functions such as building roads, public recreation areas, and schools are generally believed to be legitimate functions of government. Many of those functions are not self-supporting (How many of you paid a toll to drive on a city street today?)
We should have the liberty to build and enjoy hot rods and engage in other motorsports if we so choose. That's part of that "pursuit of happiness" idea. But if there's no safe and legal place to do it, our theoretical liberty is meaningless.
Thus, the language of "entitlement" clearly isn't applicable. But that doesn't mean that hot rodders and racers shouldn't promote the development of "solutions" that improve safety and promote greater exercises of liberty. That's going to be a tough sell to those knownothing politicians who believe that "speed kills."
It's a false dichotomy to suggest that the only choices facing most municipalities are: (a) no tolerance and virtual criminalization of motorsports or (b) spend huge sums on national-quality motorsports facilities. It's akin to saying either a city can build either dirt trails or ten-lane interstate highways and nothing else. The starting point for the dialogue ought to be how can the local and state governments work together with all the stakeholders to improve safety and maximize liberty.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Chrysler, Chrysler Bankruptcy, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Detroit Bailout, Ford Mistakes, Ford Motor Company, FRPP, GM, GM Bankruptcy, Honda, Vehicle scrappage
At one level, this doesn't really seem much more insane than the million dollars paid for the Ray Allen LS6 Malibu Convertible a couple of years ago at Barrett-Jackson by a "private collector" (who is now apparently having RM Auctions liquidate it and about 80 other race cars and hot rods at the Petersen Museum on September 26, 2009 (See http://www.rmauctions.com/PressRelease.cfm?PressID=668 or pay RM EIGHTY DOLLARS for a catalog (Talk about insane!)))
On the other hand, paying even six figures for any muscle car (not to mention THREE MILLION DOLLARS) probably represents a triumph of ego gratification over common sense. Still, it's good that some collectors are apparently motivated to pay the crazy money necessary to preserve many of these unique historical vehicles for future generations.
I wonder if his friends got a picture of the smoke for Car Craft's "burnout" page?
Actually, although the NHRA does have more opportunities for "senior drivers" than virtually any other motorsport (because of the limited duration of the races and lessened physical demands on drivers), it's too bad that the promoters, manufacturers, and sanctioning bodies haven't figured out a way to develop viable "seniors tour" championships for drag, oval and road racing.
There are probably a lot of fans who'd still pay to see famous septuagenarians like Garlits still mixing it up on a regular basis (see e.g. the celebration of octogenarian Hershell McGriff's return to stock cars http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/81-year-old-NASCAR-driver-will-outdrive-you-punk?urn=nascar,171500)
And don't senior citizens need role models too?
There are several imbeded and overarching conflicts motivating the "fan boys" on both sides of the Mayfield controversy:
1. Monolithic dictatorship vs. the little guy (the following factors are motivating beliefs and concerns)
a. NASCAR's five decades of crushing those who don't "go along."
b. American individualism and the "underdog" preference.
c. Fear of "crossing" or criticizing NASCAR (see subpoint "a" above).
d. Widespread fear of getting caught up in a similar bureaucratic nightmare/SNAFU and not being able to defend against it.
e. Distrust of accumulations of power.
2. Angst over drug testing vs. worries over the effects of drug abuse on society.
a. Concern over loss of privacy to bureaucratic "War on Drugs" measures.
b. Concern about the "role model" effect of even minor celebrities such as Mayfield.
c. Concern that illegal drugs are making society more dangerous, more selfish, less productive, and less safe.
d. NASCAR's hypocrisy (sport built on the foundation of Southern bootleggers, moonshiners, and tobacco/alcohol money).
3. Hatred of NASCAR for ruining "stock car" racing vs. Unquestioned loyalty to "The Show."
4. "Old" NASCAR vs. "Modern" NASCAR. (i.e. The hope that anything that "brings down" the "Modern" NASCAR could help the return of what was good about the "Old" NASCAR)
5. Libertarianism vs. Support for law & order.
6. Rebellion vs. Conformity.
7. Distrust of NASCAR's objectivity and procedures vs. faith in NASCAR's bureaucracy.
For some, its just personal (e.g. they like Mayfield and/or don't like Brian France). There's also probably a lot of "tweakers" who simply wouldn't want Mayfield (if he's actually on meth) to suffer any punishment for doing the same thing they're doing.
["Every type of racing eventually gets ruined . . . ." -- Mopar57]
Racing gets ruined because the sanctioning bodies have not found any way to beat the "cycle."
1. Beginnings -- pioneers of the sport experiment in obscurity and set the basic parameters of the sport
2. Period of grassroots innovation (mostly sportsmen and innovators battling on their own money in front of a few locals or in obscurity. In retrospect, these are usually remembered as the "golden days" of the sport, notwithstanding the carnage that often results from "pushing the envelope" )
3. Emergence of commercial viability (stars, sponsors, professional teams, media attention, sanctioning body bureaucracy, basic rules and parameters take a set)
4. Dominance -- one or a few professionals start to "stink up the show" by "breaking out" to dominate all of the events (this is when the huge haulers and the super-teams emerge, often with factory backing)
5. Shakeout -- marginal teams get tired of getting slaughtered and the sportsmen move on; rules packages start to squelch grassroots innovation as a means to "level the playing field", marginal promoters/tracks ushered out by move to increased "professionalism" and higher event costs (appearance fees, sanctioning fees, prize money).
6. Crisis (some star gets hurt or killed, economic crisis, fad wears off, too many marginal teams leave the sport, older tracks close)
7. Protectionism -- rules are conformed to protect the monopoly of a few professional professional teams and their "stars" and the "loyal" tracks & promoters. Outsiders, grassroots dreamers and nonconformists are excluded.
8. Stagnation -- sport trapped in "feedback loop" of Stages 4-7 as new stars are groomed and older stars/teams are replaced. Mass media and savvy promoters may increase fan base for a while but the novelty often wears off. "OG" fans start becoming alienated as too many traditions are lost. Sanctioning body is focused on maximizing revenue and keeping the super-teams/stars happy.
9. Decline -- lack of innovation, barriers to grassroots entry, and too much stagnation starts killing the sport.
Just name a type of racing and I can show how this "cycle" has occurred.
Quote from: Brian Lohnes on July 28, 2009, 11:19:56 AM
"Swamp Buggies and LSR.
You're 100% right on your cycle for any truly popular form of racing though. The niche stuff can maintain it's purity as there is minimal commerical investment.
Money corrupts all."
That's what my boss says every time I ask for a raise . . . .
And if Diamond P's American Sports Cavalcade would have just covered the Swampers a little more (or Sumner Redstone not bought The Nashville Network from the Gaylord family and turned the TNN cable channel into "Spike") maybe even the buggies would have gotten past stage 3 . . . .
It also could be that nearly all forms of "clock racing" (e.g. autocross, LSR, hill climbs, and other non-side-by-side forms) are exceptions to the "cycle" because they never become commercially viable or have such diversity and decentralization that sportsmen never have to directly compete with the stars or the factories.
On the other hand, some fairly unpopular forms of racing (judging from the number of fans in the seats, the TV ratings, and the magazine ink) are definitely subject to the "cycle" (i.e. many forms of sports car racing; dirt oval track racing).
Quote from: Brian Lohnes on July 28, 2009, 04:31:16 PM
"Speed, my personal hero is EJ Potter. Not sure if you know of or about him, but if not google him up. A great empirical thinker and a truly neat guy.
Potter came up with an idea for what he saw as the perfect form of automotive competition a few years ago and it was published here. It's a neat read. Potter saw this form of competition as being immune from the corruption of purpose (hell I'm starting to sound like you) that big money brings to racing.
This is one of my favorite things to read every now and again. EJ's a very neat guy and I've had the pleasure of talking t to him several times.
Check it out...
Part 1 -- http://www.draglist.com/artman/publish/daily_stories/article_1030.shtml
Part 2 -- http://www.draglist.com/artman/publish/daily_stories/article_1031.shtml
Brian"
We've certainly drifted off-topic a bit . . . .
Yeah, I'm old enough to remember E.J. Potter and his crazy SBC Harley. He's a legend.
But his idea, of course, has been "corrupted" (i.e. Engine Masters Challenge http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/dynopulls/index.html)
Potter admits that much of the motivations for competitive hot rodding are "showing off" (excluding, of course, hot rodding's private gratification and entertainment effects -- to which Warren Oates's G.T.O. in "Two-Lane Blacktop" erroneously alleged -- without any actual experience -- that "Those satisfactions are permanent" (They're not, as the legion of "for sale" vehicles at any Goodguys or NSRA event or collector car auction can demonstrate))
"Showing off" requires somebody to watch and lawful venues for the contest. By eliminating uninvolved spectators and promoters/track owners as mostly superfluous, Potter's plan deprives hot rodders of much of the "fuel" and "air" for "showing off." Back before NASCAR, a couple of bootleggers racing their 'shine haulers on an improvised oval in pasture somewhere simply didn't stroke the egos of the "show offs" enough. Besides, racing, like most "masculine" competitions, really boils down to attracting girls and besting rivals for the "best" girls. Thus, "showing off" in relative obscurity doesn't really cut it.
Certainly You Tube and the internet allow for "virtual" spectators and clandestine (often illegal) locations. But a better solution would be for the development of public access "speed parks" that are not dependent upon the "big event/full grandstand/broadcast TV" model for financing.
Of course (back on topic) Mayfield is may soon learn about the dissatisfactory nature of having to "show off" in obscurity . . . .
Quote from: Schtauffer on Today at 07:37:52 AM
"Someone from the city of New York writing an editorial about which cars everyone else should like-- that sounds like a vegan saying what kind of meat tastes good."
Do we really expect people who travel by taxi, "black car service" and subway to understand anything about motoring or motorsports or automotive freedom?
Global warming has taken on the elements of a quasi-religion in the toney echo-chambers of the elites. (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Global+warming+religion+First+World+urban+elites/1835847/story.html) The NYT editorial merely reflects what's being said in some of the exclusive coastal coctail circuits, where "climate change" assumptions are elements of "faith."
On the other hand, back in the '50s and '60s, the appliance motorists and the mainstream press were often campaigning against the "evils" of speed, racing, muscle cars and hot rods, so what's really new here?
Tom McCahill put it best in 1966, when somebody wrote into Mechanix Illustrated to ask why Detroit was downplaying horsepower and playing up cubic inch displacement. "Horsepower" was then the safety/environmental/Insurance lobby's whipping boy. Paraphrasing from memory, McCahill opined that even the next-to-dumbest kid on-the-block could make comparisons on basis of cubic inches, but that the dumbest kids were in the Senate and Detroit was hoping that they wouldn't be able to figure it out . . . .
And why should we be surprised that they're using 1980 as a benchmark. That's what the environmental bureaueaucrats and policymakers have been doing for a while now. (See http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2007/04/epa-hack-back-to-dismal-70s-again.html ; http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2007/07/pee-eewww-liberal-pew-campaign-spews.html ; http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2008/04/whackos-click-and-clacks-tm-earth-day.html)
A Brawn launches a part that nearly killed Massa (and most likely has ended his career) and no suspension, but Renault muffs a tire change, no one gets hurt, but Renault is suspended.
Logical?
On the other hand, the stewards claim that Renault knowingly released Alonso's car without the wheel nut retainer in place, and then didn't even tell him when he complained of tire trouble just before the wheel launched.
And the suspension was in the wake of the death of Henry Surtees, who was killed by a loose wheel while competing in a Formula Two event at Brands Hatch.
I also seem to remember somebody saying on the Fox/Speed broadcast that this was not the first time that Alonzo's Renault had a problem like this.
Any wonder why French cars aren't sold here anymore . . . .
Thousands of V8s lost to "Cash for Clunkers" and now this.
This sacking of MoTown's history is like watching the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.
These historic documents ought to be donated to an archive. If the Government owns them, then the Smithsonian seems a logical choice. Or maybe the LeMay or National Automobile Museum or AACA.
Some of these employees may actually be enthusiasts who will preserve the documents better than the factories would have, though.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Auction prices, Bangshift, Don Garlits, E.J. Potter, Formula One, Global Warming, Jeremy Mayfield, NASCAR SPRINT CUP, Superbird, Tom McCahill
SAN then focused its efforts on lessening the impact of the program on the hobbyist community.“SEMA and the SAN are disappointed that Congress ignored evidence that vehicle scrappage programs will not achieve claimed environmental benefits,” said Steve McDonald, SEMA’s Vice President of Government Affairs. “However, we are pleased that lawmakers agreed not to include the older cars and parts that help drive the passions of many in the automotive hobbyist community.”
Under the program, consumers who agree to scrap a trade-in car that gets 18 miles per gallon or less (15 mpg or less for heavy pick-ups and vans) will receive a voucher to buy a qualifying new car. The voucher will range from $3,500 to $4,500 based on the new car’s fuel efficiency. The program primarily targets SUVs and pickups since most passenger cars manufactured during the last 25 years get more than the 18 mpg combined city/highway requirement.
[As the EDMUNDS list posted below shows, however, this is simply not true. Virtually every V8 and RWD vehicle built after 1984 with a trade-in value of $4,500 or less is at risk]
The car buyer will receive a $3,500 voucher if they buy a new passenger car that was rated at 4 mpg higher than the older vehicle, or a new pickup truck/SUV that was at least 2 mpg higher than the old truck. They will receive a $4,500 voucher if the passenger car was at least 10 mpg higher and the truck/SUV was at least 5 mpg higher.
Lawmakers want the program to last one year but have only set aside $1 billion to fund car purchases made from July 1-Nov. 1, 2009. They will seek another $3 billion later this summer to fund the program into 2010.
“It took countless meetings with lawmakers and their staff in order to secure the 25-year exemption and recycling provisions,” said SEMA Director of Regulatory Affairs Stuart Gosswein. “While it proved impossible to kill the scrappage program, lawmakers were keenly aware of the SAN’s opposition to the program and wanted to remove any unintended consequences to the hobbyist community. Your voices were heard.”
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", AAM, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Dave McCurdy, environmentalism, SEMA, SEMA-SAN, Vehicle scrappage
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Vehicle scrappage
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Barack Obama, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Detroit Bailout, Fuel Economy, ObamaCash, Obamanomics
Cash for clunkers will benefit everyone from the consumer looking for the extra incentive to purchase a new car, to the communities who will receive additional tax revenue from the sales of new vehicles," said Dave McCurdy, CEO and president of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which lobbied heavily for the bill.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, Dave McCurdy, environmentalism, Vehicle scrappage
TITLE XIII--CONSUMER ASSISTANCE TO RECYCLE AND SAVE ACT
The conference agreement includes a new title providing $1 billion for vouchers of $3,500 or $4,500 to be applied toward the purchase or lease of a new fuel efficient automobile or truck from July 1-November 1, 2009. To qualify for a voucher under this authority the vehicle turned in must be scrapped, and the purchased vehicle must achieve greater fuel efficiency than the vehicle to be turned in.
Labels: "Cash for Clunkers", Accelerated Retirement of Inefficient Vehicles Act, Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act, environmentalism, Vehicle scrappage