CLICK, CLACK AND THE 500-HORSEPOWER FORD MUSTANG
"Upwards of 200 horsepower is practically expected today. And there are cars with 300 h.p., 400 h.p. and more. In my humble opinion, that’s crazy. There’s not a car on the road that truly needs more than 200 h.p. Most cars would be fine with a lot less."– Tom Magliozzi, co-host of NPR’s "Car Talk."
"We’ve gone horsepower crazy." Ray Magliozzi, co-host of NPR’s "Car Talk."
These opinions appeared in a syndicated newspaper column this week in major newspapers across the U.S.A. The Magliozzis, better known as "Click and Clack–the Tappet Brothers" hold themselves out to be "expert" automobilists to millions of unsuspecting "non-car" people in print, radio and on the internet. (See http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=2100834 . See also http://www.cartalk.com/)
"Click and Clack" are a couple of aging MIT graduates from the 1960s hippie generation who parlayed their "Good News Garage" and Tom Magliozzi’s flare for marketing into a long-time auto repair and comedy gig on Boston public radio. Almost ten years ago, they became nationally-known through syndication.
Only in America can virtually anyone become an "expert."
Yet the Tappet Brothers are representative of that "automobiles-as-appliances" mentality which grips much of the elitist Coastal intellectual subculture in the U.S. (and all the little satellite pockets of it spread near colleges nationwide). The average "Car Talk" listener probably takes every syllable of the automotive articles in Consumer Reports (R) as the sine qua non on motoring. Similarly, Click and Clack seldom, if ever, recommend one of the Detroit 3's vehicles to any of their customers. They often wail on the profligate wastefulness of trucks and SUVs (of course there aren’t too many opportunities to haul hay, go rock crawling or tow a race car around Beantown).
But, as the lead quotes indicate, they save their sharpest criticism for anything that smacks of high-performance.
One only wonders what sarcastic vitriol they’d produce at the thought of Ford Motor Company’s 500-horsepower 2007 Shelby GT500. Or what one full-throttle blast in a GT500 would do to Click and Clack’s undoubtedly atrophied neck muscles–which are more tuned to putting around in "sensible" sub-200 h.p. economy cars while avoiding falling chunks of Boston's "Big Dig" fiasco (if their personal lifestyles match their rhetoric, that is)
Automotive News Executive Editor Edward M. Lapham (www.autonews.com) wrote this week that:
"Who in these United States would honestly prefer a wimpy car that can't get out of its own way, no matter how great the mileage is?"
Click and Clack seem to be the obvious answers to Edward Lapham’s rhetorical question.
Lapham continued: " Face it. Horsepower is like sex. Once you've experienced it, you want more. And you can't imagine doing without it."
Of course, this probably goes a long way in explaining the Magliozzi Brothers.
But let’s evaluate their argument.
(Think of this as the same sort of argument you got from the captain of the chess club in back in high school, who proudly scooted around in a wheezing VW Beetle or Fiat 124 or Geo Metro or bone-stock Honda Civic, while all the "irresponsible" kids hung out in V8 Mustangs, Camaros, GTOs and other "bitchin’" "hot rods, "muscle cars" or "tuner whips")
Click and Clack are correct that since the 1980s, increased weight in our cars and trucks has required escalation of horsepower outputs just to keep pace. Some of the weight increase is due to increased structural stiffness and the proliferation of active safety technologies (airbags, ABS, stability control, etc.), which actually improves safety over the willowy flyweight automobiles common in the 1980s. But Click and Clack correctly observe that much of the weight increase is driven by market demand for more luxury and convenience features.
Weight, of course, is a much greater enemy to fuel economy than horsepower. Not only is weight a larger influence on economy than engine output, it’s also ever-present. Horsepower potential, on the other hand, uses little extra fuel unless the "foot feed" is mostly or fully depressed (which is only about 3-4% of the time for most motorists). This ought to be obvious to anyone who has carefully studied the specifications of a 28-m.p.g. Chevrolet Corvette.
But in the modern context, is 200 horsepower the magic number, above which lies wretched excess? Could most cars safely get by with even less?
And why even 200? The aerodynamic efficiency of most cars and trucks is such that the "road load" is only about 15-30 h.p. in a steady-state cruise at highway speeds. In gridlocked, stop-and-go traffic, a five-horsepower riding lawn tractor could keep up.
And Henry Ford’s Model T only needed about 22 horsepower to put "America on wheels." Before the high-compression Kettering-style OHV V8 took over in the 1950s, American cars commonly had only 60-150 horsepower, while often weighing as much as two tons.
Could it be that even Click and Clack are also "crazy" about horsepower, albeit at a much more modest level? Or is the problem more complex than their simple sloganeering suggests.
Assume an average curb weight of 3300 pounds for a "sensible" sedan with enough interior volume for four American adults to comfortably travel more than an hour. If equipped with a 200 horsepower engine, the power-to-weight ratio is about 16.5 pounds for every horsepower. Such a car ought to be able to run a standing-start quarter mile in the low-fifteen second range at around 90-93 m.p.h. Zero-to-sixty will probably be in the 8-10 second range, depending on a number of factors.
Respectable, but nothing that will cause one to lie awake at nights.
But add in four 200-pound adults, a couple hundred pounds of luggage and 90 or so pounds of fuel and the power-to-weight ratio plummets to 22 pounds per horsepower. Quarter mile times may drop to as low as the seventeen second range, with the car struggling to reach the 80 m.p.h. mark in a reasonable distance.
Obviously, the loaded 200 h.p. car will be driveable, as such underpowered cars were in the 1970s. But the margin for acceleration in an emergency situation will precariously small. And many highway on-ramps and cloverleafs will have far too short of an acceleration area for this car to safely merge at the prevailing speed. This could force our loaded 200 h.p. car’s driver to take unnecessary risks, such as stopping at the end of the on-ramp or forcing his way into the flow of traffic at less than prevailing speeds.
Add in another thousand pounds of weight (as would be common with a number of current models) and the problem just gets worse.
To live under a "200 h.p. or less" cap, automobile engineers would either have to sacrifice performance or dramatically cut weight. Both options have potential adverse consequences for safety, durability and consumer choice.
In the hands of a properly-trained driver, a high-performance car is safer than an underpowered schlub of an appliance. That’s because more power creates more options to escape from potentially-dangerous situations. A driver of an underpowered car can only swerve, nail the brakes, and hope for the best. If someone running a stop sign is about to t-bone you while you’re in the middle of an intersection, hitting the brakes may not be your best option. The "Blessed Mother of Acceleration" gives you another meaningful choice, as millions have already discovered.
Moreover, a higher power-to-weight ratio gives a car more flexibility. Instead of having to "work" to keep up with traffic or to "make time" on a challenging drive, a more powerful car can allow a driver to arrive more refreshed and less fatigued. Over the course of a long motor trip, this may substantially increase the margin of safety.
A higher-power-to-weight ratio also makes a car more forgiving to drive. Low-powered cars require maximum attention to conservation of momentum in order to avoid unforseen bottlenecks and dangerously "getting hung out" in traffic. This is even more of a factor in manual transmission cars, which depend on the driver selecting the correct gear at the correct time. Sadly, not everyone pays full attention, and even the best drivers make mistakes. A more powerful car provides a reserve for a skilled driver to "drive out" of tense situations with minimal risks.
In summary, the choice as to whether one needs 200 or even 500 horsepower shouldn’t be made by bureaucrats, paternalistic environmentalists or even self-appointed know-it-alls babbling on public radio. It ought to be a market choice left up to consumers.
"Upwards of 200 horsepower is practically expected today. And there are cars with 300 h.p., 400 h.p. and more. In my humble opinion, that’s crazy. There’s not a car on the road that truly needs more than 200 h.p. Most cars would be fine with a lot less."
"We’ve gone horsepower crazy." Ray Magliozzi, co-host of NPR’s "Car Talk."
These opinions appeared in a syndicated newspaper column this week in major newspapers across the U.S.A. The Magliozzis, better known as "Click and Clack–the Tappet Brothers" hold themselves out to be "expert" automobilists to millions of unsuspecting "non-car" people in print, radio and on the internet. (See http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=2100834 . See also http://www.cartalk.com/)
"Click and Clack" are a couple of aging MIT graduates from the 1960s hippie generation who parlayed their "Good News Garage" and Tom Magliozzi’s flare for marketing into a long-time auto repair and comedy gig on Boston public radio. Almost ten years ago, they became nationally-known through syndication.
Only in America can virtually anyone become an "expert."
Yet the Tappet Brothers are representative of that "automobiles-as-appliances" mentality which grips much of the elitist Coastal intellectual subculture in the U.S. (and all the little satellite pockets of it spread near colleges nationwide). The average "Car Talk" listener probably takes every syllable of the automotive articles in Consumer Reports (R) as the sine qua non on motoring. Similarly, Click and Clack seldom, if ever, recommend one of the Detroit 3's vehicles to any of their customers. They often wail on the profligate wastefulness of trucks and SUVs (of course there aren’t too many opportunities to haul hay, go rock crawling or tow a race car around Beantown).
But, as the lead quotes indicate, they save their sharpest criticism for anything that smacks of high-performance.
One only wonders what sarcastic vitriol they’d produce at the thought of Ford Motor Company’s 500-horsepower 2007 Shelby GT500. Or what one full-throttle blast in a GT500 would do to Click and Clack’s undoubtedly atrophied neck muscles–which are more tuned to putting around in "sensible" sub-200 h.p. economy cars while avoiding falling chunks of Boston's "Big Dig" fiasco (if their personal lifestyles match their rhetoric, that is)
Automotive News Executive Editor Edward M. Lapham (www.autonews.com) wrote this week that:
"Who in these United States would honestly prefer a wimpy car that can't get out of its own way, no matter how great the mileage is?"
Click and Clack seem to be the obvious answers to Edward Lapham’s rhetorical question.
Lapham continued: " Face it. Horsepower is like sex. Once you've experienced it, you want more. And you can't imagine doing without it."
Of course, this probably goes a long way in explaining the Magliozzi Brothers.
But let’s evaluate their argument.
Click and Clack’s opinions are rooted in the "appliance-motoring" community’s paternalistic worry over fuel economy. Their thesis is that the "horsepower craze" has deprived everyone of all the dreamy fuel-sippers the Earth-children hallucinated about when they buried a brand-new Detroit car on the first Earth Day back in 1970 (in between "rolls" in their psychedelic VW microbuses). Thus they probably represent the thinking of many "intellectuals" and other, lesser know-it-alls who believe they understand better than you do about what sorts of vehicles should be available to the general public.
(Think of this as the same sort of argument you got from the captain of the chess club in back in high school, who proudly scooted around in a wheezing VW Beetle or Fiat 124 or Geo Metro or bone-stock Honda Civic, while all the "irresponsible" kids hung out in V8 Mustangs, Camaros, GTOs and other "bitchin’" "hot rods, "muscle cars" or "tuner whips")
Click and Clack are correct that since the 1980s, increased weight in our cars and trucks has required escalation of horsepower outputs just to keep pace. Some of the weight increase is due to increased structural stiffness and the proliferation of active safety technologies (airbags, ABS, stability control, etc.), which actually improves safety over the willowy flyweight automobiles common in the 1980s. But Click and Clack correctly observe that much of the weight increase is driven by market demand for more luxury and convenience features.
Weight, of course, is a much greater enemy to fuel economy than horsepower. Not only is weight a larger influence on economy than engine output, it’s also ever-present. Horsepower potential, on the other hand, uses little extra fuel unless the "foot feed" is mostly or fully depressed (which is only about 3-4% of the time for most motorists). This ought to be obvious to anyone who has carefully studied the specifications of a 28-m.p.g. Chevrolet Corvette.
But in the modern context, is 200 horsepower the magic number, above which lies wretched excess? Could most cars safely get by with even less?
And why even 200? The aerodynamic efficiency of most cars and trucks is such that the "road load" is only about 15-30 h.p. in a steady-state cruise at highway speeds. In gridlocked, stop-and-go traffic, a five-horsepower riding lawn tractor could keep up.
And Henry Ford’s Model T only needed about 22 horsepower to put "America on wheels." Before the high-compression Kettering-style OHV V8 took over in the 1950s, American cars commonly had only 60-150 horsepower, while often weighing as much as two tons.
Could it be that even Click and Clack are also "crazy" about horsepower, albeit at a much more modest level? Or is the problem more complex than their simple sloganeering suggests.
Assume an average curb weight of 3300 pounds for a "sensible" sedan with enough interior volume for four American adults to comfortably travel more than an hour. If equipped with a 200 horsepower engine, the power-to-weight ratio is about 16.5 pounds for every horsepower. Such a car ought to be able to run a standing-start quarter mile in the low-fifteen second range at around 90-93 m.p.h. Zero-to-sixty will probably be in the 8-10 second range, depending on a number of factors.
Respectable, but nothing that will cause one to lie awake at nights.
But add in four 200-pound adults, a couple hundred pounds of luggage and 90 or so pounds of fuel and the power-to-weight ratio plummets to 22 pounds per horsepower. Quarter mile times may drop to as low as the seventeen second range, with the car struggling to reach the 80 m.p.h. mark in a reasonable distance.
Obviously, the loaded 200 h.p. car will be driveable, as such underpowered cars were in the 1970s. But the margin for acceleration in an emergency situation will precariously small. And many highway on-ramps and cloverleafs will have far too short of an acceleration area for this car to safely merge at the prevailing speed. This could force our loaded 200 h.p. car’s driver to take unnecessary risks, such as stopping at the end of the on-ramp or forcing his way into the flow of traffic at less than prevailing speeds.
That's hardly "fine," as Tom Magliozzi implies.
Add in another thousand pounds of weight (as would be common with a number of current models) and the problem just gets worse.
To live under a "200 h.p. or less" cap, automobile engineers would either have to sacrifice performance or dramatically cut weight. Both options have potential adverse consequences for safety, durability and consumer choice.
In the hands of a properly-trained driver, a high-performance car is safer than an underpowered schlub of an appliance. That’s because more power creates more options to escape from potentially-dangerous situations. A driver of an underpowered car can only swerve, nail the brakes, and hope for the best. If someone running a stop sign is about to t-bone you while you’re in the middle of an intersection, hitting the brakes may not be your best option. The "Blessed Mother of Acceleration" gives you another meaningful choice, as millions have already discovered.
Ask an experienced motorcyclist if a reserve of power is a safety factor or not, and listen to their responses. Of course the average modern motorcycle has a much "higher" (numerically-lower) power-to-weight ratio than any but the most exotic sports cars.
Moreover, a higher power-to-weight ratio gives a car more flexibility. Instead of having to "work" to keep up with traffic or to "make time" on a challenging drive, a more powerful car can allow a driver to arrive more refreshed and less fatigued. Over the course of a long motor trip, this may substantially increase the margin of safety.
A higher-power-to-weight ratio also makes a car more forgiving to drive. Low-powered cars require maximum attention to conservation of momentum in order to avoid unforseen bottlenecks and dangerously "getting hung out" in traffic. This is even more of a factor in manual transmission cars, which depend on the driver selecting the correct gear at the correct time. Sadly, not everyone pays full attention, and even the best drivers make mistakes. A more powerful car provides a reserve for a skilled driver to "drive out" of tense situations with minimal risks.
In summary, the choice as to whether one needs 200 or even 500 horsepower shouldn’t be made by bureaucrats, paternalistic environmentalists or even self-appointed know-it-alls babbling on public radio. It ought to be a market choice left up to consumers.
15 Comments:
What kind of B.S. is this.
I will not address all the issues, but just two of them.
I live in Denmark, but have had the pleasure to live in USA for more than a year, so I know the US road conditions quite well as I did around 30000 miles "over there".
"And many highway on-ramps and cloverleafs will have far too short of an acceleration area for this car to safely merge at the prevailing speed".
Well, my humble 37 year old automotive means of transportation with around 75 hp and a fully loaded weight of around 3000 pounds can, if I keep attention to what I'm doing, reach and go over the speedlimit on any on-ramp or clover-leaf in Europe and, believe me, the are NOT as long as they are in USA. If You can't do that in a 200 hp vehicle, You should try to figure out where the throttle are. Even my 95000 pound big rig will do it, if it wasn't for the 55 mph govenor. And I won't even tell You that the speed limits in Europe are higher than in any place in USA I have been.
"If someone running a stop sign is about to t-bone you while you’re in the middle of an intersection, hitting the brakes may not be your best option. The "Blessed Mother of Acceleration" gives you another meaningful choice, as millions have already discovered.Ask an experienced motorcyclist if a reserve of power is a safety factor or not, and listen to their responses. Of course the average modern motorcycle has a much "higher" (numerically-lower) power-to-weight ratio than any but the most exotic sports cars."
Can You find 10 persons on this planet who actually has been saved by any form of acceleration in this situation?. No, because if You are moving it'll either be too late You see the danger, or the brake will be the only appropriate answer to the situation. What You say is, that it is possible to see you are gonna be T-boned ahead of time and that is not realistic.
In Europe, the majority of cars are equipped with engines in the 75 - 150 hp range, capable of transporting 5 to 7 persons + luggage, they will all do 100+ mph, 0 - 60mph. around 9-11 secs. do around 40mpg. and they come with all kinds of safety features.
Unless it is a very big family, Who can honestly say they need more than that?.
Best regards
Klaus Sivertsen
Denmark
What stupidity to praise unnecessary hp and excessive speed at a time of high fuel prices and the desparate need to conserve fuel to leave some for our kids!!
I drive a fuel efficient van BY CHOICE (ironically the same model as one of the nutty brothers claims to own, the early 4 cyl Honda Odyssey) . And I'm sure glad I have the choice to get something a bit more powerful if I want/need to. The nutty brothers are fine entertainers, but I'm afraid they're slumping into the category of entertainers I'm more frequently turning OFF. The Barbara Streisand (spelling? sic), Linda Rondstat, James Taylor, Bruce Springsteen brand that have made it a point to get all political instead of what they do best. I can't stand listening/reading/watching because all of their liberal, whiny, gloom and doom preaching comes to mind.
Thank GOD (yes, God) we have a free country and we get to solve problems ourselves. Well, I guess that would be less relevant nowadays since we have a liberal (spender) Republican in office.
Oops, sorry for the rant. So glad I could have a Suburban if I wanted one...
Horse Power or whatever! More like Horse Pooo.
I am sure that you are the expert that we should all be running to for advice about how to make our sub 200 HP car into a screaming 400 HP death machine. I will listen to Click and Clack first, however. Last I knew I don't drive to work on a race track. I drive to work in a car that has problems that they talk about. That makes them experts in my book. I have not tuned into the Speedzzter radio program for a while, errrrrr, for ever.
What people need is solutions to the problems they have with their cars not with yours (I am assuming you have a 500 plus HP insanity vehicle, or are you just well read in Hot Rod magazine?). To this day people have managed putting around in their mediocre vehicles without managing to get themselves killed.
500 HP is fine for NASCAR, unnecessary for the real world.
Automobiles ARE appliances.
Get over it.
I don't want your gas guzzler driving up the cost of MY gasoline.
Comment from an Australian driving in Australia .... I drive a VW Golf diesel - about 100KW (about 134HP)but with heaps of TORQUE it is really quick off the mark! I also have one of those 4 cyl Honda Vans too - also more than enough power (and torque) to get onto the freeways at traffic speed.
BUT most people here don't know HOW to join a freeway - typically they "merge" at 15 mph below the traffic speed, and slowely if at all reach the right speed!
No matter how fast a car can go, people's eyes and brains can only perceive changes in traffic at a given speed.
Therefore, the more traffic there is in an area, the more unsafe it is to have more powerful cars, because they allow faster changes in speed.
In NASCAR, we have professional drivers who practice constantly, driving cars with the latest safety equipment, in top condition, on top-notch roads, where the traffic is all moving at nearly the same speed.
In the conditions the other 99.999% of us drive on, we are all in greater danger the more powerful the cars are, and the greater the changes in velocity.
Perhaps They recommend Japanese cars because they are a better value than the crap coming out of the "big" three. I thought Republicans were supposed to like the 'market' driven purchasing. When given a CHOICE (the caps from one or your other commenters), Americans seem to like the Camry the best.
Instead of whining about the workers salaries and healthcare (FYI Japanese auto workers make about the same and have better healthcare at lower cost), perhaps Detroit might consider making cars that people want and that run reliably. It's concept.....
Why would you possibly care so much about this to write this long, hillarious, incorrect rant? It does seem that you are overcompensating for size lacking elsewhere, attempting to make it up in HP!
hmm ... seems like people will fight over anything. Citizens of the United States have freedom of everything, including speech, what kind of car to drive, and where to shop for their groceries. Until the demand for large, powerful vehicles declines, they will always be sold. I assume the ranter and anti-ranters on this page are attempted to sway the opinion of the other side, but honestly, when has that ever happened in this history of any argument? This is fun to read, but of absolutely no worth to any attempting to form an opinion.
My car weighs 3200lb.
My car has 80hp.
My car gets 38mpg.
My car seats 7.
My car has 227,000 miles on it.
Shut the hell up, you whiner.
The really hilarious part at the top of the post is the part about how "horsepower is needed to get you OUT of trouble"! I almost fell on the floor laughing. I have about a half a million miles of motorcycling under my belt, and I can tell you from experience that the most important safety feature of any motorcycle is the front brake and skill in using it. After that comes weight. The lighter the safer. Motorcycles can NOT make unplanned swerves, they need to set up by first turning towards the thing they are about to hit. Skilled cyclists use a tremendously strong pull on the bars to put the bike down into a turning position as quickly as possible, but a car can still initiate a turn more suddenly simply because it doesn't need to turn the opposite way first. If a cyclist is skilled, he/she is less likely to hit things head on (the most common accident for bikes, especially with novice riders who aren't yet skilled with the front brake). That means that side and rear collisions become the main threat, and these are both much more prevalent at slow speeds, as any experienced cyclist will tell you. I suppose that fact could be interpreted as evidence that the accident could have been avoided by gassing it, but I'm fairly certain that none of the (four) side and (one) rear hits that I was involved in could have been avoided that way. On one of those side collisions I was riding a large american bike, and the car hit just my rear wheel. I wished I was on my little 'pocket rocket', which was a much smaller target. I think that the size of the target is more important than the size of the motor when it comes to being hit by other drivers. That goes for any kind of vehicle.
Well, I guess I'll be the only one on here agreeing...
I've owned and driven everything from Hyundai Exels to Volkswagen Sciroccos to 1965 Buick LeSabres to my current driver, a 1996 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon. I've even gone so far as to convert my first car, a 1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme from a underpowered 110-hp 3.8L V6 that got 21 mpg to a 400-hp, 355-powered, 4-speed V8 that gets 21+mpg when driven correctly. There's a reason (actually several) I keep going back to the big V8-powered cars: They're fun. They're comfortable (I'm 6'1" tall. I don't fit in many fuel-sippers comfortably.) They're safe. And, even flying in the face of the "American Made Cars are junk!" convention, very reliable. But, then again, I'm someone who bothers to learn a little about cars, and do preventative maintenance when needed, and not just get in the car, turn the key, and put gas in when needed. But I digress from the subject at hand.
I agree to a point, that 200 hp is all that most people out there need, and to be honest, really should have. Through careful selection of gear ratios, a 200hp car could have a little "get up and go" for the everyday joe who needs to get off a highway ramp, and still get modest-to-good gas mileage. And that's fine for probably 90% of people on the road, and the reason why Mustangs and Camaros have base engines that have almost always had base engines of 200hp or less...still got the show, but many people just don't need the go. And that's fine.
But not for all of us. Apparently none of the people who have commented here have had the opportunity to pilot something built for speed, to mash on the go pedal and feel the car hunch in the rear quarters, the motor jump to life with a roar coming out of the exhaust pipes, and your head (and pasengers' heads!) sucked back into the headrest. Add exponentially to the fun if you're rowing the gears yourself. And if they don't want to, that's fine. But it's an exhilerating experience, one that I'm addicted to, and will continue to enjoy safely (fast, powerful cars CAN be driven that way, you know!), when I can, and where I can. Even if the price of gas goes up to 8 bucks a gallon, and smog is replaced by "smug" emitting from the tailpipes of hybrid car owners, I'll still be enjoying 400 horsepower...because I can. Others can enjoy whatever they enjoy...just know that I enjoy horsepower and torque, and it's just not a nice thing to encroach on people's pleasures, and, quite frankly, freedoms. I don't get in the way of your wearing Birkenstocks; so please don't get in the way of my enjoying my car.
The cars the majority of you folks are commenting are built for the 'auto enthusiast' in mind. While there are many of these enthusiasts out there, a small minority of the drivers on the road actually own these 'muscle' or 'tuned' cars.
As the owner of a tuner, I feel I have every right to modify said vehicle and safely test its performance at the local track.
To some its a hobby, to some its a sport, and to some its simply a way of life.
Next Article...Should basketball players over 6ft tall be banned from playing? Theyre ruining it for the little guys, after all.
What a load of crap,Whats the population in denmark anyway 20?You come to the US for a visit and your an expert?Your probably the fool who made me late because your little "play" car couldnt be peddled fast enough to reach APPROPRIATE speed levels to murge onto the highway.You talk about europe,ha!try your 95hp crap on I-45 in Houston at 7.45AM on a work day.I'll pay more for gas if i must but dont preach your tripe when all your really doing is parrotting liberal "talking points"-How about try and do UNBIASED research on some of this stuff and youll see how foolish you sheep really sound.I live in AMERICA and if i want to drive a 400 or 500 hp vehical thats MY choice not yours.Its like cigarettes and guns,if you dont like to smoke -dont buy them ,if your afraid of guns dont own one,but dont you dare force your own opinions on me i have the same rights as you do and my personal choice are mine by right.
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